Price v. Lawson - The UNC Debate

By BJ Lawson, on Oct 17, 2008

I was nervous going into Tuesday night's debate. This was the third event with my opponent in three days, as we shared the stage at Town Hall events in Raleigh and Durham on Sunday and Monday nights, respectively. I quickly learned that reasoning often loses out to sound bites, especially if the sound bites are what the audience wishes to hear. Is it possible to strike a balance between intellectual rigor and emotional appeal?

In an effort to step back and regain perspective, I went back and reviewed the YouTube clip that provided my  first introduction to Dr. Ron Paul back in May of 2007:

Seeing this footage again, well over a year later, reinforced exactly why I am running for Congress. At the time, I was utterly shocked to hear a politician advancing logical arguments in a debate, as opposed to stringing together meaningless soundbites and partisan rhetoric. It took several weeks of intense research to determine that I wasn't actually listening to a politician -- rather, Dr. Paul was a statesman with a thirty-year history of defending our Constitution, and a government that serves the individual.

As I watched Dr. Paul's debate footage again, I began to relax. Specifically, I focused on his calm, measured demeanor, and his straightforward way of confronting complicated issues. Do I wish to be a politician who wants to be elected? Or do I wish to be a servant of the people who seeks to understand the issues, and act in my constituents' best interests?

Dr. Paul's performance crystallized my goals for the evening. Sound bites are insufficient in a world that is rapidly trending in dangerous direction. Wanting to get elected is not equivalent to wanting to serve. I resolved to do my best to communicate honestly on the issues, contrast my opponent's voting record with his rhetoric, and most importantly, remain measured and calm in the face of his inevitable verbal gymnastics.

So here it is:

Opening Statements:

Research Funding:

Bailout and Economy:

Domestic Issues:

Energy:

Civil Liberties:

Education:

Foreign Policy:

Pakistan:

Closing Statements:

Way to go, BJ. You shredded that smug, incompetent, bailout-loving parasite.

-jcr

Well done BJ. I'm a democrat, and I just donated again to your campaign! No party has a hold on liberty, we need constitutionally-minded men and women of integrity to defend it. Best wishes on Election Day and keep it up!

BJ,

Well done, I think you scored a knockout. I especially like it at the end where you said you refuse to be defined, it was a great way to end the debate because your opponent had been trying to define you as W Republican the whole debate, and that statement took the air out of his balloon.

I am an independent, not because I am middle of the road, but because I believe both parties are corrupt, out of touch and could care less about the people.

I think Congressman Price is out of touch and is too entrenched and needs to go fishing.
You Mr. Lawson are the real thing, and I believe Americans are enraged right now and are
going to throw the bums out and Mr. Price will be one of the first to go.

While I know Mr. Price talks about how unpopular George Bush is, he needs to look in the mirror because his own congress is much less popular with a pathetic 8% favorable rating.

"Aye, fight and you may die, run and you'll live. At least a while. And dying in your beds many years from now, would you be willing to trade all the days from this day to that for one chance, just one chance to come back here and tell our enemies that they may take our lives, but they'll never take our freedom." -- William Wallace

Lawson,

Keep on keepin' on, in this election and beyond, no matter what. You have great debate skills! And, you are pretty smart too! You know the issues, you know the constitution, and you know how to run a campaign (and business, I hear!). There really is nothing wrong with you.

Thank you.

Great debate. I wish you were running for office in the 14th District of California. Good luck in November!

wow... the performance from both candidates was not really anything special, until i got to the pakistan question... great rebuttal Dr. Lawson, and the conclusion was excellent too!

Excellent job, Dr. Lawson! I'm so glad to see how the liberty revolution sparked by Paul is multiplying in a new generation. May he be joined in Congress by dozens like him this term, hundreds next term!. This debate is a clear example of Mark Twain's quip: "Politicians are like a baby's dirty diaper. They both need to be changed often... and for the same reason!"

It's funny how Price gives himself credit for opposing Bush policy and holds it against Lawson for doing the same!

Way to go! You are a competent, smart young man. We need more of you
to run times 435 to run in all congressional districts.
Price is like hard, stale bread.....he can be broken into crumbs and you're
the man to do.

I support, campaign for, and contribute to any candidate endorsed by Ron Paul, and Mr. Lawson is no different.

But these videos are downright horrible. Between the horrid audio and the camera moving around I couldn't watch it for more than 1-2 minutes. Couldn't they use a wireless microphone? Couldn't they use a tripod?

I'll struggle through these video because I'm genuinely interested in what's being said, but I think the staff should have done a better job w/the video.

It must have driven you crazy that Price insisted on calling you Mr. Lawson instead of Dr. Lawson...

Anyways, I think you did great. You have a way of pointing out your opponents fallacies with out coming off as defensive or hostile. You squarely put Price in his place with class!

D. Price is so full of s**t. He is soooo over with and out dated. I agree with Joe that Mr. price needs to go fishing.....just as long as somewhere along the journey of his fishing trip, he JUMPS OFF A BRIDGE. I wish you the best B.J. and sincerely hope that you will speed your way into congress and possibly affect the country's outcome in the short and long term. Your understanding of the basics of banking revels Mr. Price's knowledge of just about anything in your entire debate. That is except for the typical partisan B.S. that Mr. Price can't seem to get away from. Keep up the study as you have learned much in the last year, and don't give up, you are making great headway.
P.S......just in case you don't hear it very often.....Thanks!

*SO* inspiring. What a relief to hear such blatant honesty about the condition of our so-called representative republic. What a joy to witness one of the good ole boys called on the carpet in serious debate. I live in TN but I'm donating to your campaign. I wish we had a constitutionist candidate running in my state.

Nice job B.J.! We are rooting for you here in the the 14th District of Texas!

Congrats BJ - We're pullin for you all the way from LA County! In 2010 we need to find more like you!

Great job B.J.
I had never heard of you until Ron Paul sent out the email asking for us to support you. Because of that email I have twice donated to your campaign because I trust Ron Paul. After watching this debate I can say that I am extremely proud to have supported you. I will continue to support you. Regardless if you win this election or not I hope that you will use your considerable talents to continue to fight to move this country in a new direction.
One thing representative Price did in this debate and that the presidential candidates did to Ron Paul was to point out that we would abolish the department of education and other government bureaucracies and mandates because they are unconstitutional. You nor Ron Paul answer that charge. I think that this movement must make people understand not only that things are broken, most of us understand that, but must also explain how your vision of limited government will make things better. How will your vision improve education, energy issues, the economy etc... in this country They have to be specific ideas not just "a free market will solve the issues" but explain WAYS that the free market will fix these issues. As I see it this is the greatest weakness of this movement.

Mike Lindsey
mike_lindsey@alltel.net

Mr. Price it is AMAZING how many words come out of YOUR MOUTH, and yet you say little of value. You are so blind to what is going on in congress and in our country, you actually believe your own hypocrisy which spews forth from your mouth. Mr. Price, I am glad that 50 freaking years ago you helped with the civil rights movement. What have you done to protect the Constitution and civil rights TODAY??? NOTHING!!! BJ you did great. May the people of your state WAKE UP and handily throw Mr. Price out of office. I live in Arizona and I am very happy to have donated to your campaign. I am confident after you are elected you will be another voice for REASON, the Rule of Law, the constitution and the people of this great country and follow in the footsteps of Dr. Ron Paul. In order to be a great man, first you got to be A MAN!

Great job Dr. Lawson!

This message of truth and freedom is how you will succeed in this election.
Liberty and truth always prevails.
We are rooting for you over here in Arizona.

I loved your simple rebuttal on the Pakistan question: what gives us the right to pick and choose the leaders of other countries? Your opponent's answer was ridiculous, and any intelligent audience members must have picked up on that. Nice work - keep tearing it up!

I'm glad you're out there Mr. Lawson. This other guy sounds like the slimeballs in Atlas Shrugged that lead the way to the end of the world. I feel like that book is coming true - fortunately, the good guys win in the end. You're definitely one of the good guys playing an important role. Even though this guy is a well rehearsed snake of a politician, I think your integrity and passion is appealing and refreshing - as things become inevitably more dire, your approach will eventually win. Best of luck, and I'm with you!!

I watched the whole debate and I think you did a fantastic job! I couldn't believe how snotty that congressman was being with you by constantly saying "the party of my opponent" when he is clearly more aligned with Bush than you would ever be. You have my full support and I hope to call you my president someday too.

You did a great job. It is funny how one simple question you posed to Price befuddled him so. Don't let him try to paint you in a corner because you are running as a republican. I am a democrat who will vote for you. The lines are confusing at this moment but will be clear as we go on. Keep up the good work and good luck. Remember, you are trully the real change we need.

Dr. Lawson,

You did great in this debate! Price really made no significant points, but you on the other hand, made many great points that showed the shortcomings of Price and the validity of your own stance. It is inspiring to know that it was only in 2007 that you were exposed to Dr. Paul, and here you are on the brink of joining him in Congress!

Congratulations on a job well done,

David Carlson
http://www.davidcarlsonpolitics.com

His only arguement was to connect you with the current administration. How ironic that his platform and track record resemble significant connections to current policy while yours do not. I sincerely hope many of your ideals are carried through congress this year in North Carolina, and other states across the country.

Lawson,

I think that you will gain votes from the debates. I assume that your name recognition in the district is significantly lower than that of David Price. So, that means practically anything attention will gain you more voters than you lose. You do not have to beat Price to win from a debate; you just have to ensure that you do not embarrass yourself. You did not embarrass yourself at the debate, so you will gain votes from the debate.

Job well done BJ. While I don't reside in the 4th district and for all practicle puposes have no direct incentive for your victory, I am also an American who over the past one year plus has become educated to the pollicies and practices of our elected "officials" (I use that term loosely). While it is very obvious that Mr. Price has no real bearing on the document referred to as the Constitution, I know that you do and that sir is what I desire in any representative in my Congress. While I can not vote for you personally, you can rest assure that I will continue to support your campaign both financially and spiritually. You keep up the fight and I know that the people will come around and understand that in order for us to achieve the success that we desire, we must make changes in our policies and phillosiphy. You GO SIR!!!!!!

I posted my reaction at BlueNC.com

-- ge

I find it embarrassing that the race between Dr. Lawson and this partisan hack is close. Anyone supporting Price should be ashamed of themselves.

Nice job BJ.... keep stomping down political parrots with TRUTH.. Me and many others around the stated got your back..

states*

Good debate in which Dr. Lawson came across in a very polished fashion for a first time candidate in the face of the more experienced candidate seeking reelection, and laid out the important issues to get America back on track.

Great debate BJ...I just made donation...I wish there was someone like you running in my Florida district.

Dr. Lawson,

You are terrific!!!

You've successfully illuminated the contrast between America's vintage Free-Market approach and the socialistic approach of your opponent.

The next real test is if you can get through the thick skull of the general electorate.

I came to this site after receiving a mailer from www.lawsonforcongress.com.

I must say that based on the mailer, I was not expecting much. It seemed to try to hide your party affiliation stating on the first page that your campaign is composed of "Democrats, Unaffiliated, Republicans, Libertarians" and only on a tiny box on the last page did it list your affiliation.

So, I admit, frankly, that I am surprised having reviewed the debates to find your platform to be more clear and thought provoking than I expected...so I can't just dismiss it out of hand. So, here's some of my more pressing questions about your campaign.

In your mailer, you state that you "reject offensive war" and that war is only to be used in "self-defense" or "defense of innocents." You also state that "David Price has consistently voted for war throughout his Congressional career."

Could you back up the latter claim, please? According to my own research (http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/members/p000523/key-votes/), it sure looks like Congressman Price was speaking truthfully when he said that his voting record indicated an attempt to tie funding of the war to timetables for troop withdrawals, efforts that were stymied by members of the party you are representing.

Also, just to be clear that we are not equivocating over terms, do you reject the so-called "Bush doctrine" that actually claims the war in Iraq is "self-defense"? Could not your "defense of innocents" standard be used to justify interventionist wars? I'm not trying to parse words here, just trying to make sure I understand your position.

I agree that Congressman Price in the debate above appears to be trying to run not against you but your party, and I understand how that creates an irony because your stated positions are often in opposition to those of the party you are running under. But that leads me to the very real question of why, if you hold the positions you do, are you running under the banner of a party that has a record of being more hawkish, more in favor of the erosion of civil liberties, more responsible for deficit spending, etc. than the party you are running against? Why not mount a primary challenge to Congressman Price or run as an independent?

As you can tell, I'm not a huge fan of David Price, but I'm pretty skeptical of someone running as a Republican saying he is a safer bet to oppose the policies and influence of the the Republican party. I suppose this rather long message may make me appear to be a troll, but the truth is I am undecided as far as the NC-4th house race is concerned.

Dr Lawson, you and people like you are the hope for the future of our country. God bless you!

Thank you for posting the debate, as I was unable to attend. You continue to make your liberty loving Americans proud--keep up the excellent work and take some comfort in knowing there are many working behind the scenes on your behalf--I included.

Is there a transcript available? The audio isn't the best quality and it's sometimes difficult to understand what is being said.

Take a listen to a new radio ad Ron Paul's organization (www.campaignforliberty.org)
wants to run in opposition to Price's vote on the bailout:

http://campaignforliberty.com/aud/CampaignforLiberty-NC.mp3

B.J. -

Thank you for running for government office.
Your willingness to throw yourself into the political fray inspires me, and I hope it will inspire others to take the stand we've needed to take for so long.

After watching the debate, it's clear that you are one of the people we need in government. Like Dr. Paul, you utilize reason, rather than regurgitate a party mantra, or repeat what the news anchors spew from their television pulpits.

By the way you cut to the core of our foreign policy problems when you asked "What gives us the right to choose leaders of foreign countries". Keep up the good work.

-Brandon Atkinson

Awesome BJ! You and Ron Paul inspire me. I am very excited that you're running. Keep up the great work.

Kenneth - Thanks for your questions, and for asking. I'm skeptical and cynical enough that I appreciate the need for parsing words.

I've put some additional work into documenting the assertion that David Price "consistently votes for war" here:

http://www.lawsonforcongress.com/lawson-vs-price/prices-war-record/

The bottom line is that he has voted to initiate and continue hostilities under Democratic administrations, but has not voted to initiate hostilities under Republican administrations. Thus, he appears to be motivated by party politics as opposed to principle.

We're constantly at war, however, so it's obvious these games of party politics are used as a tool to keep the electorate divided while enough swing votes are always present to ensure that wars are funded, although never constitutionally declared.

I reject the "Bush doctrine." Iraq is not, and was not, a war of self-defense, and is not justified either in self defense or defense of innocents. The question of "defense of innocents" in my opinion is best exemplified by Hitler steamrolling unprovoked into Poland -- that's a scenario where defense of innocents could be invoked. Internal struggles in other countries are not, in most cases, defense of innocents.

For example, consider Somalia -- Somalia has a human rights tragedy with African Muslims at war with Arab Muslims. Which side should we choose?

The answer is neither -- we cannot, and must not, take sides with military intervention in other nations' civil wars. For additional perspective, please see here:

http://blog.lawsonforcongress.com/2007/11/18/guidelines-for-the-use-of-d...

I am running as a Republican because the Republican party has desperately lost its way and needs to be rebuilt from the inside out. Please understand, I've always been a Republican -- it's just that the party establishment no longer reflects my values, nor the values of most Americans, with respect to good government that serves the American individual instead of corporate interests.

Since the Republican party has moved in a dangerous direction, it needs to be reformed. If I abandon the party, then it will continue to act against my interests, and the interests of the American people.

Would you prefer to have a party that acts against our nation's interests, or would you prefer to support principled candidates who wish to reform a sick party so we can again have a productive dialog that is truly transpartisan and focused on American solutions for American problems?

Finally, while the Democratic party may appear more benign than the Republican party, in reality its leadership is not. The bailout is a perfect example of how BOTH parties need a housecleaning at the top. Pelosi is basically a surrogate for the current administration, and our incumbent takes his orders from Pelosi instead of the people and our United States Constitution.

We need principled leaders working for change in both parties, and I look forward to working with such leaders to advance a constitutional government that serves all Americans equally regardless of party affiliation (or lack thereof).

John Stossel just did an excellent 20/20 program on the role of government, and what tends to happen when we look for politicians and bureaucrats for help:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Phs6CwnutoY&feature=user

Highly recommended.

-jcr

One of the moderators should have reminded him that he was running against you, not the Republican Party from the 90s.

We're rooting for you in the 41st District of California.

Dr. Lawson,

Something to Consider....

It is EXTREMELY diificult to be responsive to 700,000 people. But that is what a Congressman is asked to do. In your case, when you get elected, you will also have the rest of the country asking for your help because there will only be a few free market Congressman.

So here is my suggestion -

As a Congressman, you will get one million dollars per year for staff. Use some of the money to create a Web 2.0 system that computerizes and publishes your consitiuent services. As you are campaigning, advertise your intention to use the tax money confiscated from voters to give them a real Congressman - who interacts with the people.

RE: Mike Lindsey - "abolishing the Education Department."

Ron Paul specifically stated that "the states should handle educational issues". Local problems are best handled locally. No one in "this movement" said anything about locking up the schools. We just want the Federal Goverment out of it. Talk about micro-managing? Every Sate, every town, every neighborhood has it's own specific challenges. Challenges that only the LOCAL people would be familiar with and best suited to handle. Keep the big goverment out of our hair.

Let the people run their own lives, their own towns, their own finances and their own freedoms.The Feds can collect money for education and issue laws to protect children but the minute details should be handled by the State.This is what the Constitution advises and this is what "our movement "is trying to express.

If you want a goverment that (in Ron Paul's words) takes care of you from "cradle to grave" then Communist China would be a wonderful place to live. Everything is taking care of by the BIG, BIG Goverment. Health, education,jobs,housing,etc. But unfortunately,there isn't much freedom for the individual.

I would rather find my own job, my own place to live, my own Health Insurance and take responibility for my fate. Just as long as I have my freedom.

Peter

The generational differences are huge, Democratic left of center old-guard vs. Libertarian true conservative (root derived from conserve). BJ would do well to learn from Price as he is well-heeled to the nuances of Washington. We desperately need a paradigm shift from the politics as usual. BJ should learn that his positions as right as they are will require softening if he is to enter a realm that has sadly changed little in its history and has become more polar since Rove, the Gingrich revolution and the fundamentalists commandeered the Republican Party. We unity and common ground.

Peter,

I think it's worth noting that no totalitarian government has ever delivered on those promises of taking care of people from cradle to grave. They just made it illegal to report on their failures. Mussolini didn't make the trains run on time, and Castro didn't deliver health care to every Cuban.

-jcr

BJ wins!

Thank you BJ for defending our freedom and our Constitution with honesty and integrity. Best wishes to you from Connecticut. I wish I could give you my vote for Congress in November.

Mr. Lawson, I was pleasantly surprised to see you would at least come to the aid of a 100% innocent attacked nation like defending Poland against the Nazis. But I am very interested to know what if anything you would do about the tragedies going on in Darfur? Military action would be risky and not exactly libertarian-like, but the people are defenseless and there seems little doubt that there is a horrific genocide going on there. So what would you want to see this government do, if anything?

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